ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade Business Related Discussion Cheap labor

Just had a call to take 2 circuline fixtures down and rehang 2 florescent strips. Gave the man a price of $80.00 ( just a little above service call rate here). Quickly said that was too much and hung up. I need work real bad, so I called him back and told him I'd do it for $50.00 since he didn't live too far from me. He told me he had someone to do it for $ 30.00. This all happened within 3 minutes. I told him that was a good price, thank you and bye. Wow!! Looks like I'll have to cut my rates down even more if I'm going to make anything

I can't believe you would lower your "rates" to do work for someone. Sounds more like you'd be working for free. We electricians are truly cut throat with each other apparently. 50 was too low btw. Im amazed the lengths people will go to do work. I know the economy sucks now, but when will we smarten up as a trade, we are not laborers

How could any do that for thirty American dollars?
I am cheap but there is a limit. If I was just a handyman and not a licensed Ec I still would want more than that!

Zactly! After our recent ICE storm I've been called for generator hook ups.
No temp stuff, done right (scratch) Correctly or no deal. (cord caps etc.)

At my own home,no power for 6 days, my Gen-Tran swirtch and 5K gen worked great. But at 1 point I had a backfeed on my lines!!!!!
How would that make the linesman wife feel?
Now with 12" of snow tonight and more on Wednesday...
I would like to call the Town and have the AHJ go check out the temp Generators.

A2#H(*e? Maybe. But it would secure my spot in the Business and perhaps save a life.

Win-Win in my oppinion.

Just ask yourself....... What would a plumber do?

Leland:
A 'smart plumber' would sell the HO a natural gas/propane generator! (Joke)

The backfeed situation presents a real danger. Enforcement of 'temp' emergency generators, on a wide scale area, may be difficult/impossible for the AHJ's. Are the AHJ's in your area booked? Do they have time/manpower to police all temp gen's?

Maybe some EC's might think of mailing out flyers for installation of transfer switches in areas that are storm prone!

Now thats Funny!!!

Of course the AHJ does not have time, nor would the town pay them OT. Nor would I.
Basicaly just a vent.
I am not that cold hearted that I will not assist with getting your heat on.
But I will draw a line, from good neighbor to a man with a concience.

Contradicting? Yes. I feel I made the point I was after.

BTW: Earlier this week I got a call to fix a guys boiler. He got it temped out (himself), but when the power came back on... No heat, He did'nt note what and how he took apart.

Never crossed my mind that you were cold hearted.

I got your point before, and had to throw mine out there.

Just caught an ad in local paper...Generac, gas/propane & electric hookup, $5999; local EC.

Looks like you learned a lesson ... if you can open your eyes to it.

Let me put it this way ... had you offered $30, the guy would have then claimed he found someone for $20. He was gaming you.

It sounds counter-intuitive ... but such a person needs a HIGHER price, not a lower one. Save your sharp pencil for folks who have proven themselves good customers.

If he calls back, take the hard line: You've reconsidered, your price is $120. He missed his chance. You'll have to do it in the evening, as you now have another commitment. You also want his credit card # before leaving the shop. If he doesn't like it, he can go back to the phone book.

You might even suggest he go to a seminar at Home Depot. What you DON'T want is this clown wasting your time.

Yep, you're right guys. I guess it is better to rake leaves or cut grass for $50.00 than to belittle our trade.
I was just thinking what would happen if the guy who's doing this work for $30.00 happens to find "brittle" wires in the light box when he takes down the "old" circuline flourescent light. I don't imagine he's a licensed electrician anyway, just a do it yourselfer. If he calls me back, yep, my price just went back up. He should have taken me up on my "special for the day":)

Well if his house burns down(god forbid) and his homeowners insurance finds evidence of botched electrical work, they may have an issue with covering him. It i truly frusterating to me, the amount people will pay an auto mechanic, or plumber without hesitation, but when you dish out a price that's higher than a handyman's quote you are the bad guy. the flip side is that handy man doesn't have the on the job training, and required schooling to be an electrician, or the proper insurance to cover his gaf's . Selling your work is not simply about installing a light fixture, it is about peace of mind. your customer can sleep soundly knowing you checked the wiring was not brittle, and that you secured that ceiling fan properly etc. Honestly if a customer wants to bargain shop I'm positive electrical work is not the place to do it.

I have been spending a little bit of time at do it your self sites, and come to the realization. That we need more well educated and trained elects out there. It seems that every Tom Dick and Harold knows electrical? WTF. just because they can change a switch doesnot make them an expert. My point is to me it is like we are being disrespected!

I was at doit yourself .com and some jerkoff who I am sure doesnot know the difference between an amp or an ohm. Totaly dismissed my recomemdation on wiring up a sub panel even thought it is to the nec.

I am going to go out on a limb here. I believe that if the trunk slammers/handymans charged more this would help us pros. people will than see that what we do it not cheap labor and is in fact a skilled trade. I don't know I am just ranting, but I couldn't hurt us

Never be ashamed of charging a fair price.

There will always be the cheap sod who will think it's clever to beat you down in price. Such a person does not recognize that it is in his interest for you to also prosper.

Such folks need several things to go bad before they start to learn that there's a reason it's called a 'skilled' trade.

What amazes me is ... no one ever, ever brags that their surgeon or lawyer is the cheapest guy around.

John,
This thread annoys me a bit, not because of what you are saying, but because it needs to be posted in the first place.
Bottom feeders like those that like to under-cut legitimate EC's need to be taken out of the equation.

What are you folks doing to report these handymen/un-qualified workers/ hacks?
It is one thing to complain, but what is happening with restoring a level playing field?
Get with it, it seems to be every man for himself, so be it, pot the ones that don't have the qualifications, you know about them, lets clean this trade up, it has been a long time coming, it is about time that electricians stood up for themselves and their livelihoods.
Onwards and upwards!

The Helmets to Hardhats program makes an enormous contribution to trade labor. Despite falling economic demand, this hemorrhaging regiment of disciplined JATC recruits awaits on the sideline, training, and paying their dues. See for yourself, www.helmetstohardhats.org

This is one pipeline that deluges the supply of dues-paying, JATC labor. None are licensed, nor experienced, but on their way to becoming skilled-Journeyman Wireman (JW's).

Regardless of dues payed by State-Unemployment insurance, between jobs, this skilled JATC labor force wont sit at home forever. Being jerked around on wait lists is the quickest path to side jobs with Owner/Builders.

This unlicensed market --usually without permits-- is where JW's brake out, quickly learn to outsell undocumented laborers, and other rivals. Everyone in this industry knows those JW's making a killing, feeding from the State, Union, & weekend jobs, at the same time.

Now with this surge in recruits increasing the supply of JW's during a recession, demand falls; perhaps as the yellow pages fill up with handymen ads.

It sounds as if you have some experience with the unlicensed handyman market

I don't think this thread is about cheap contractors. I think it's about customers with unrealistic expectations.

First are the folks who haven't a clue what it takes to run a business - especially a service oriented business. All they see is your $130 fee for an hours' work, and compare that to their $35/ hr salary .... thinking "I went to engineer school to get paid 1/4 what this blue collar chimp gets?" They don't even realize that their $35 actually costs the employer $50, or $70, since they don't see the other employment expenses.

Then are the folks who ...as I suspect the OP encountered ...for whom 'free' is too much! I won't forget the time I offered a killer of a deal to a guy ($400 to buy and install a $320 motor) who immediately responded that replacement cost only $250 the last time. What made his statement suspect is that I had alread spoken to the guy who had installed the equipment three years before ... and this was the first replacement. He was lying, playing games, and that's all there was to it.

As one mini-mart operator told me: "Never be afraid to fire a customer." Or, "just say no." Let them find their hacks and wanna-bes. Then charge them double when you have to sort out the mess later.

A case in point: One of my customers hired me because he had some HID lights out. Now, he could have hired some handyman to change bulbs and ballasts ... let's do the math there:
14 bulbs @ $35 ea: $490
14 Ballasts @ $230 ea: $3220
Parts alone: $3710
Enter the real contractor. Using his $300 bulb tester, he finds only six of the bulbs are bad. All the ballasts are though.
There's a problem, though ... the EC recognizes this building is only a few years old; 14 out of 40 fixtures seems to be a high failure rate. After making sure the power, and controls, were operating correctly, he's able to get the ballast maker to replace the ballasts under warranty. The EC cost the customer about $700 ... far less than what a handyman whould have cost.

Some customers just haven't yet learned how expensive incompetence can be.

You make a great point Reno!
Those of us that are EC are going to have to start to deversify. Me my self I am thinking about the whole plumbing thing. Since my apprenticeship was with a plumbing contractor. but licensing will determine what way I go.

Any way this is what I was thinking about earlier.

Why is it acceptable for certain trade contractors to drive a Bmw When AN EC drives a Malibu and he said to be overpriced? just thinking of that to day when I went to replace a subpanel. The customer said wow nice truck no wonder I am paying so much!

cheap labor?

well where do i start? i'm living in a state that has the most 2nd homeownership in the northeast, most of said being high end ski-bunny 'McMansions'

the state insists on having it's own addendums to the nec addressing dwellings, yet doesn't inspect the one element of growth here, single family homes

adding fat to that conflaguration, the last (in a string of) legislative endevors to have the state do so ended in failure, aided by the states contractors association ...who were against it!

it's frustrating to say the least, i have to compete with contractors that wire their own dwellings, or homeowners that do

imagine having a good % of your biz trashed either due to wanting to do it right, or informing someone just how wrong their wiring may be

perhaps T Friedman said it best when he said "The hidden hand of the market only works with a closed fist"

~S~

I would also like to reiterate what has already been said.

I started my company in 2006 and I learned pretty quickly that some customers are just plain cheap. You could actually do a job at a loss and they would still complain that you were expensive. And the reality is that I'm better off sitting at home doing nothing than working at a loss.

I don't gouge anybody, but my rate pays me a good wage, pays all the company's expenses and includes a small profit for the company. The rate is non-negotiable.

Bruce

i like this a lot.....simply because i've livd it so many times....