ECN Forum Forums Code Related Discussion Building Codes for Electricians Oversize Plates

Per NEC 314.21Repairing Plaster and Drywall or Plasterboard.
Plaster, drywall, or plasterboard surfaces that are broken or incomplete shall be repaired so there will be no gaps or spaces greater than 3mm (1/8") at the edge of the box or fitting.

OK, then, does anyone ever enforce this? There are plates made with the express purpose of covering oversize cuts. (Ironically, I've even seen them advertized as such in the IAEI magazine).
What do you think?...S

I am usually more concerned about it in a rated wall than an average installation. Like you said, the over-sized plates will cover it before I will see it.

I always thought the only way the use of these could be justified is to cover up some irregularity in the wall finish (ie Paint, Wallpaper), not oversized holes.

What did the ad in the Magazine say?

Bill

Scott,

I have yet to see an inspector pull off more than a panel cover. So it seems that what doesn't get seen will get passed.

Should my inspection fail for work that I didn't do, i.e. the sheetrock? Who should fix those gaps?

I agree with Bill's perspective as to the use of these.There is no excuse for a carpenter or drywall hanger to leave an oversized hole around the box for the electrician to have to deal with.. I never hesitate to call this to their attention, and the attention of their superiors if need be. Sometimes it ruffles their feathers, but who cares. Occasionally I have had to quote NEC 314.21 to them. Then I let them know that the oversized holes are to be repaired or I don't trim out !! No exceptions.

I have worked with an engineer who spec medium size plates for all struck block jobs. This makes good sense do to the fact even the best masons can't make all cuts that tight.

As far as 314.21, I brought this up in the BC area questioning why this is not in 314.20. It seems we could toss out 314.21 if it were.

The UL orange book states any box in a rated wall will not have more than an 1/8" gap therfore overridding the NEC laxness. (is that a word )

Roger

Is the space around th ebox addressed in the Building Code somewhere?
Or is it only found in the Electrical Code?

It seems to me it should be in both places, especially if they want it to be enforced.

Bill

No, but they can fill the gaps with mortar,just as a sheetrock finisher can fill the gaps with tape and mud.

[This message has been edited by txsparky (edited 10-30-2003).]

bill,
section 709.6 calif.bldb. code(1997 ubc)addresses the firestopping methods.in concrete walls ;concrete,grout,or mortar the full thickness of the wall or the thickness required to maintain the rating is o.k.fire caulking or other listed systems are acceptable in other types of walls.
the material used to fill the annular space shall prevent the passage of flame and hot gases sufficient to ignite cotton waste when subjected to ubc standard 7-1 time temperature fire conditions under a minimum positive pressure differential of 0.01inch of water column(2.5pa)at the location of the penetration for the time period equivelent to the fire rating of the construction penetrated.that's the technical explanation!

Donnie, the gaps aren't a code issue in CMU construction. Set back is. The plates are only for a clean finish on the exposed block.

The masons always mud in behind the boxes and point them up anyways.

Roger

pwood,

Thanks, I've never seen a situation where someone was violated for the oversized gap around a box. I've never supplied oversized plates for a job and always point out to the GC or person in charge where gaps are too big. It doesn't seem like anyone else has ever heard of this rule.

Bill

Bill,
The ad was in Sept/Oct2002 IAEI News-"News Source"
"Cooper Wiring Devices Introduces New Mid-size Thermoplastic Wallplates"
...."designed to cover electrical installation gaps"
...."adds a full 0.375" (9.525mm) on all sides to NEMA standard-size plates, providing needed gap coverage for over cuts or other large wallboard-to-box openings"
(they also describe the product line as "exciting"...I guess somebody must lead a pretty boring life)...S

I've always taken 314.21 to mean if the electrician were to perform install old work, therefore the electrician cuts the hole, is responsible, and as such citable for said hole...

i could be wrong ,inspectors might be writing up drywallers...

is this so??

Is the cover plate a "fitting"?

Sparky, It seems to me that if the NEC was to be applied only to electricians, then the other Codes would apply only to the trades that they govern.
That would mean that we could cut large holes through structural elements, cut A/C ducts out of our way, etc., and the other trades would merely have to say that "The electrician did it".
Since we are subject to the other Codes, I believe that the *^&%$# drywallers are subject to enforcement of the NEC...S

Point taken Electure, i agree that there must be a concensus of cross referencing, unfortunatley many jobs i see have gaps a cow could be launched through here...

it's been jumborama up until the new energy laws enlightened (this is YOUR tax dollars at work folks) that Vermont is cold in the winter and leaks cost $$$